I have an idea that will most likely get shot down. But please hear me out...
I do a lot of questing. I think there should be other side quests to do. Maybe for the healers of each kingdom. Maybe set the timer for 4/5 ticks, depending on if you have a bright rune. Have the quest give 20 tokens and if you have a pulsing let the program do the math and that is your bonus and so forth.
It wouldn't be mob kills just item finds. It gives us questors something to do when no one else is around. It will also breaks up the whole sitting at quest masters and waiting for the ticks to go down. Some players like to quest and build their gear before power leveling. And I know I hate it when I am say 15 tokens away from my goal and can't move on because I have to wait for those last 15 tokens. It will help the speed of the custom building a bit.
I know I left some things out but it's an idea to get others to help put their two cents in...
Ok DAK, ready for the holes...if you can hit me...
Not terribly in favour of the prospect of mini-quests, but I can certainly see the need/appeal. Part of the problem with customs, is no matter how much Chalgyr and Enthor say they're not necessary... they -are- necessary. When you have a level 97 player complaining about how hard it is to kill anything that's worth something--and he's struggling to make kills of 50 exp at this point--with few if any customs then you know there's a problem.
One solution would be to reduce the mobile's hitting power at lower levels to reduce the reliance on customs at low levels for those who don't catch on that you need customs to survive the higher levels. Since groups are really not a reliable option for new and low level players (partly because the group range is so small, maybe it's time to expand base to 25 levels + 15 for sworn). Without reliable group access, customs become the necessity to make up for it.
Another solution would be to introduce a buff buy option at healers that grants, at the least, the sanctuary spell (which would reduce mobile damage by half), increase low level healing spells so scouts and priests are much more useful with cure/heal light/serious/critical. Getting rid of the quaff penalty(ie: getting full on potions/pills) so pills and potions of healing would actually be a viable option once more for novices so they could survive levelling much easier.
Perhaps a better solution than mini-quests would be some sort of in-game job, or something--like mining, fishing, or "farming(like farmville or harvest moon, as an example)" which could give bonus tokens, or maybe even special "bonuses" like reputation bonuses that give quest boosts or reduce timers, or something.
Yes we could use something to do between quests, but there are other things we could do to make levelling at low levels that much more plausible.
Also, get rid of hidden/invisible doors/exits in sub-100 level zones. Unless they remembered to get a faceplate in newbieland, and even then it's iffy, they'll be stuck on quests that require them to go through these hidden/invisible exits/doors until they can get customs with detects on them in the first place.
The farming idea would be fine, but it's kind of like a mini-quest. It's something to do while the person is waiting on the quest timer. I am hoping that we can find something to do other than sit and quest. Yes we can cast spells but that gets boring just spamming them. And you can't quite farm gold without killing mobs. But that is getting off target. It's about the last 15 tokens you need for an item and you want to move on. That's why I suggested a mini-quest at a healer. They are already in the game, making the objects are not that hard, they already have the program to place the item in rooms, and it will keep people active that want to build and move on.
Yes, but this also has the problem of giving more tokens, which cheapens the value of customs. Which are meant to be not so easy to get. If you can do a mini-quest twice per quest, then you're essentially getting 2 quest rewards every 10 minutes. Even at 1 miniquest per quest, that's 3 quests per two quests done. Roughly. Killing mobiles can get you quest tokens as well, so no, we shouldn't give people more incentive to sit at level 33 and get customs. If you want to sit at 50 so you can't level at all, totally your call. You won't get bonus tokens from kill mods then.
Mini-quests are not needed. Introducing side-games/bonuses that can give you useful bonuses such as tokens, or improved questing for a bit, then sure. But not the ability to make more tokens just so you can sit at a low level and not worry about levelling.
Ok so possibly making the mini-quest at the healer the same time as a normal quest, with a lesser reward for doing said quest. Or possibly making other things like the chicken hunt with Franz. It's something to do that will give you an added bonus to your quest tokens or getting spelled up like the widow bog.
What kind of side-game could be implemented that wouldn't take to much work?
I imagine anything would require work. It's just a matter of, why do we need a secondary questor? We've had similiar ideas in the vein of reducing the quest timer so we can get more quests, or increasing rewards. Both ideas were met with, "Then everything would have to cost more to counter-balance it." So really, we should be looking at "mini-game" type things that can be done between quests to combat the boredom, instead of having a mini-questor with half the rewards to do between quests.
I still saying mining or farming would be the more likely. Mining could net you gems you can shatter, among other rewards that might sell for silver/gold or even tie into the war system. Farming could net you tokens outright for good produce and gold/silver, and also tie into the war system. Both being resources that could be used for something. Such as speeding up an upgrade, or whatever.
Fishing is about the only thing I can't really think of a decent reason to outright give tokens for. It'd be more probable to give gold/silver for it... or some sort of reward for getting X type of fish and getting X amount of tokentype or something.
I like those. The mining would be cool with possible gem extractions. But now we just have to have an IMM read these and say yes or no.
And it'd be nice of other players would actually weigh in. Slacking slackers.
>.>
Yes it would. You all heard the Daklore, now start shooting bullets into the idea...
I read.
Now I've commented.
Oh, wait.. you wanted a yes or no.
It's just an idea to have more things to do other than power level or spamming spells. I have a feeling the answer is no, but it didn't hurt to ask. ;)
Answer isn't no, but it's not yes either.
Questing boredom is absolutely an issue and an improvement to the situation would be great.
I've played games where there were other activities (crafting/mining/fishing/et al) between quests, but sometimes that just ended up being "bored while questing/crafting/mining/fishing/et al", because they become boring repetitive activities at some point.
How comfortable do you feel that after you've fished your ten thousandth fish, mined your ten thousandth gem, et al, that it would still feel interesting or at least non-boring?
Well, most of us who are questing for custom would like the gem idea because we can shatter them for tokens. That would help with the last 15 needed for a custom. I think if you can gather tokens while waiting for the quest then it would be fine. It might be boring after a while but while you are waiting because you have nothing to gm, and if no one is around to rp then mine. Make it a low level skill for all classes and it is something you have to gm. It gives those who want to gm stuff, those who want to quest, and those who don't care something to do.
I solve my boredom by surfing the net. Repetition isn't usually going to fix the problem down the road, at best it's a band-aid fix. Fric seems to be more focused on getting more tokens while questing, rather than on the actual boredom though. It doesn't matter what you implement, there's always going to be that "last 15 tokens till custom" problem.
I think what we're really lacking, is roleplay. Which we can really only remedy with more players, to be honest. That's what made it less boring pre-wipe, we had a lot more players to RP with between quests to pass the time.
I do a lot of surfing, so I guess the lack of rp is a big culprit. It's not just about the tokens, it's doing something inbetween. So I guess it may be time to start a new thread on how to get the player base back? But rp is stagnent because there are quite a bit of us with alts and we log them in and people who don't like others won't rp because of who is behind the screen. I know it's up to us to keep our alts seperate. But that is getting off point. No I really just want something to do without actually leveling.
Okay, I actually have a few good answers for you.
I wish you could do a flow chart on forums :)
Anyways..
If youre not at max level..
Grind while you quest.. you get mods and those give you tokens..
Bloodquest while you quest, those blood moxes shatter for an additional aprox 1000-1500 tokens.
There is a small repeatable mini quest in Murkwood, where you kill chickens or turkeys and give plucks of feathers or something to that person right by the quester and get 1-5 tokens a pop. (their drop rate is about 1/10) but they add up.
Build an area in between questing, every 50 rooms nails you a builder token (750 tokens a piece)
--Which if my area serves me correctly mr Fric, you have an unfinished area you need to work on!---
I hope some of this information was a help. I know I mainly grind and I don't quest much.. But I can offer things to keep you buys that yield tokens.. I eventually.. at some point, plan on making a few more level 50 areas, for level 50's to enjoy that are fun.. to rp in.. quest in, and kill stuff (as in theyll yell funny stuff when they are slain, or amusing stuff at the least) So you do have other stuff to do when youre just sitting at level 50..
(I also have started a fight club.. any 50 can participate in now, you just have to change your otitle to (fight club) then you can find someone else with that title and MESS em up :))
-Sye out
Quote from: sye on 08/28/11, 11:21
...
Bloodquest while you quest, those blood moxes shatter for an additional aprox 1000-1500 tokens.
....
Bolded: Sounds like a bug...
Anyway, everything else I agree with. There are lots of options, Fric just wants something to do that won't net him levels. The best solution for this is to... yaknow... sit at max level, in which case we'd just tell you to tier and quit your female doging. >P
well I dont know if thats the number exactly, it the same as any mox you shatter, and it was intended. so not a bug. - sye out (as far as I know of )
The Blood mox shatters? Into what tokens? I didn't know that.
into random gems, and then you shatter those into tokens
Well, then I guess I can start blood questing.
Quote from: Thalia on 08/25/11, 21:36
I read.
Now I've commented.
ROFL - I was considering something like that as I was reading down, but I'm not sure I'd count as a 'player' either :) I like the idea of more side stuff, just not sure to what extent. The idea of being able to do something to buy/get rewarded some sort of a healer-given buff would be kind of cool. things like the mining or farming - jobs/professions if you will has been batted around a bit in the past as well.
Ok, I guess I need to make sure this is understood by all...(DAK). I like to build my character and have them customed and moxed out. I then make a new one and do the samething. I am not all about grinding out. I have 2 level 209s customed and moxed out. I actually like making the toons and doing things with them. It's not about grinding out levels for me. I go and do some grinding but I get bored doing that. What keeps me going is the building of a toon and having fun with them. So don't criticize me because I don't want to level all the time. I can't help it that you have 9500 hours on one character and you won't expand.
Now that I have that out of my system, I think it would be interesting to see what can come of it. I know hunting chickens is not that fun, and the rewards aren't that great but it is something. Mining would be intersting and make it a tick timer so you can't just sit there and mine constantly.
Quote from: Fric on 08/29/11, 13:54
Ok, I guess I need to make sure this is understood by all...(DAK). I like to build my character and have them customed and moxed out. I then make a new one and do the samething. I am not all about grinding out. I have 2 level 209s customed and moxed out. I actually like making the toons and doing things with them. It's not about grinding out levels for me. I go and do some grinding but I get bored doing that. What keeps me going is the building of a toon and having fun with them. So don't criticize me because I don't want to level all the time. I can't help it that you have 9500 hours on one character and you won't expand.
Now that I have that out of my system, I think it would be interesting to see what can come of it. I know hunting chickens is not that fun, and the rewards aren't that great but it is something. Mining would be intersting and make it a tick timer so you can't just sit there and mine constantly.
Then it's your fault for being bored!
END OF LINE
It seems you don't like an idea that you didn't come up with. It is an option, I never said they should do it. Hence idea...We have heard your piece on the issue, I was just trying to make it more clear and respond to Chal, but your negativeness towards the idea is boring me now.
Never said I didn't like it, just said we don't really need mini-quests, or that complaining about being bored between quests is a valid option. Considering you put yourself into that situation. But anyway, I agree we could use more on the side-game, something, anything.
They should make a game of cards.. with numbers on each side.. and levels.. like level 1 cards.. to level 10.. and you can go challenge each other.. players who hit over 1k hours get one made of themselves.. and they can drop on mobs and be put into a deck.. kinda like that game in ff8.. that was fun.
I actually thought of making an idea for that once.... still ponder it once and a while. But it never went anywhere.
Just code MtG into the game and be done with it >P (yeah yeah, copyright issues)
well I know, they would have to make it... kidna.. not so streamline.. but fun..
I dont know exactly what they would do.. but it would be awesome if they had some kind of card game like that.. Or some kind of game like that..
I dont know what type of medevil games they had you could look into putting into the game that would rock?
But they should have stuff that you can do WHILE you rp, or TO RP. or .. .to boost people being in the same room or conversing etc..
Archery contests, jousting contests, demonstrations of martial skill (aka wrestling. And not that fake stuff you see on tv).
Id like to see the arena spiffed up some.. and added onto.. maybe make a 10 rooms that are in the bloodplane.. add a section thats all in antimagic and wild? You know stuff like that.. that would be interesting..
(http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/members/bearinthemorning/albums/random+pictures-80/derail-983.jpg)
Because it totally has >P
lol, we are talking about things to do 'in between quests' and quest boredom, so technically if we can prove its to help avoid quest boredom its not derailing the topic!
arena would be something to spiff up to help fight off quest boredom :)
Quoteif they had some kind of card game
CARD WAR <bet>
HELP WAR CARD GAME
I think he meant more like MtG, or Yugioh >P
can you play those games in tolin with OTHER players? or just npcs? I was thinking of more a Strategic game, with numbers.. and something you can add to mob drops.. like if you kill a type of mob.. for instance.. you could make an std file or something.. .with racial stuff, and BAM you could get a skeleton card.. or ghost card.. or .. athach card.. or dragon card.. etc..
I dont know.. it might be too much of a hassle to do.. or not be worth anyones time, it was just a ponderation.. Id suggest chess or something but people could just yahoo chest, so theyd need something unique if a game like that was ever.. thought about.
Or maybe tweeking tag a bit? To make it a little more.. rewarding, or challenging?
Maybe if a game of tag is in play, the player thats it gets a small neg bonus, or something, or can't quest! until they quit the game, or tag someone else, something to keep people playing rather than just ignoring it, and maybe if youre in the game "and are flagged to play" you get quest timer reduced by 1 tick or something like bright?
Maybe not that drastic of a bonus, but I was just thinking something along those lines.
-Sye out
Quote from: sye on 09/02/11, 21:53
Or maybe tweeking tag a bit? To make it a little more.. rewarding, or challenging?
Maybe if a game of tag is in play, the player thats it gets a small neg bonus, or something, or can't quest! until they quit the game, or tag someone else, something to keep people playing rather than just ignoring it, and maybe if youre in the game "and are flagged to play" you get quest timer reduced by 1 tick or something like bright?
Maybe not that drastic of a bonus, but I was just thinking something along those lines.
Considering most players have it set to keep them out of tag games ... yeah, no.
Well of course they do, it doesnt add anything but annoyance. Its just a way to annoy people.
but if it did something cool, then maybe people would WANT to actively play it.
And it was just a thought.. probabaly not necessary..
But, fixing things that noone uses to make more fun is a good idea :P
*pulls out his daklore bat and hits him int he head* THUD!
-Sye out
And adding a penalty to it would make people wanna play it more? No. It was just meant to be a fun thing, that some people didn't wanna do. Me, more because I'm grouchy. Others, well, might have been irritating. But adding a penalty will just have people toggle tag off by default.
Not if you add a bonus to the people who aren't it..
but I see your point, if someone couldnt find anyone theyd just quit the game, and then noone would be it and people would lose whatever bonus they had.. I mean who in their right mind would let a negative affect stick with them..
So.. Maybe not such a good idea.
Tag is annoying. There is a dice game in Tolin and you can gamble but that can get costly. But you can do gold or tokens.
Well, playing games by yourself isnt much FUN, we are trying to think of things you can do with OTHERS.. maybe if the new war system had some unique things you can do that would affect other players, in ap ositive way (for your kingdoM) or for a negative way, to people at war with you or something.
-Sye out
We have the very basic coin flip, diceroll and card cutting systems in place - could those somehow be leveraged into actual games?
I think it would be interesting, but you'd have to 'include' a house. Like.. If you can gain more tokens than each player has, or money even, have them be able to lose it too. Cause I could see people abusing something like that if it was between player A and B and between one or both you could only gain tokens.. people would just sit there and farm it.
But if you could lose all your tokens too, both players, that would be interesting, or if it were only just gold
But that would be a cool idea. I know that playing around with games could be detrimentally annoying to whoever is fixing them up. So uh, I don't see someone spending the time to do that sadly. But I like it if it were ever to be considered. It would be fun to play games with other players. Possibly even have a rank system that you can see in score, or on a board in the 'gambling room/game room'