item & equipment drops

[Chalgyr]

In most MMO's and a handful of MUDs, most of us have probably seen item and equipment drop tables. Most MUDs have you placing gear and items on specific mobs via reset. However, using the drop tables, killing say, a level 10 creature gives you a chance of getting certain things - depending on the creature.

For example, killing a soldier could return scraps of cloth, or an item put together on random stats based on a table appropriate for the level of the soldier, or maybe drop some coins, or maybe drop a potion. The weapon could vary from junk to maybe somewhat magical to very rare

Killing a wolf may yield a pelt, maybe a junk item like a claw you can sell, and may drop a random potion

Having a boss goblin could drop the same things as the soldier, but since he's a zone boss, and maybe he pops a bit less frequently, he also has a chance of dropping something unique to him like Arth does with moxes.

I'm just curious what you guys think of systems like this. It seems like it's a lot more work up front, but would save builders time, and it would add a bit of excitement to drops while having more 'variety' in the kinds of things that do drop.

The downside is something like this can be tough to balance. There's probably a good deal of trial and error to make sure that the drop rates aren't too frequent, especially for the really good stuff - or so infrequent that no one ever gets these really good items.

Also, how picky to be with the system. In some games, you can only get gold off of humanoid creatures, for example. Does it make 'sense' to have animals like a bear drop potions or weapons or gold? If not, how do you make them more worthwhile than say, killing a soldier when you'e setting up a zone? We don't do professions (another topic for later) - but do you maybe rely on animals more for materials?

Or, do you all as players like knowing what you will get from a creature every time? Or as builders do you prefer that finite control over it? (I suppose you could probably integrate both systems - have a drop table but still put in resets on mobs you REALLY wanted to have something specific?)

[Daklore]

Crap. I backed this page and lost everything I wrote. !_! Let's try this again...

I think this form of system would be beneficial for KotL, and MUDs in general. It would allow you to develop a baseline for armour and either tone down customs, or tone up general gear so that customs are less of a necessity, and more of a nifty bonus(maybe even more powerful in general, but less so than current.) Look at the objects actually in the game, Chal. 99% of these will never be used outside of selling them for gold, that most of us don't even need because we don't have any need to spend it.

I'll use an example from Achaea, where mobiles don't drop anything except for gold, quest items(different from autoquesting, it'd be more like the mobtalk system we just got last year or so), and iconic shards(used for PvP objectives that most people don't bother with because... well, it sucks >P). Achaea armour and weapons are relatively balanced, and the only way to get them is through crafting(which in itself, in terms of weapons and armour, is a gambling game in and of itself).

You have to buy the commodities to make these armours, you can't get them from killing things, or mining, or farming. You have to get gold, and buy them. Steel at 91 gold per, with something like a chainmail(moderate armour for Sentinels, Druids, and Sylvans or something) costing... what, 16 steel per attempt. And each attempt can vary from utter crap(which is a loss of money), or an amazing piece of rarity(worth a small fortune). The gold drops in Achaea are pretty balanced against the costs of the economy, although part of that is player moderation.

I don't think crafting is viable in KotL, partly because of the population, and partly because as the skill system is set up, there's almost nothing stopping everyone from getting them and devaluing the concept of a crafting system. Going for a drop chart like D2, or GW, or all those other games, would probably be a better route. Yes, it'd be harder to balance the drop rates, but you'd have a -lot- more control over the baseline and be able to make really good rules for making said armour and weapons so that they'd be consistent.

And with enough work, it could be feasible for builders to insert a few armour/weapons with the very strict rules to add some unique drops to their area.

As an aside; potions, pills, wands, staves, and scrolls are in another category altogether... and for the most part, are worthless to even bother with anyway. This is partly their lack of power(staves/wands/scrolls) and limits on consumption(potions/pills vs hunger).

Also, a charted drop system would help to bring the gap in slots with availability rarity(wings/tail/shin/ankle/etc) up to par with available options, instead of requiring outright customs.

[Chalgyr]

Thanks for the feedback Dak. I have had curiosities on a profession/crafting system, but agree that probably wouldn't fit here now. It's going to be a future topic though, simply because I'm curious on the topic and what others have seen/liked/disliked about them.

I agree with a fair number of your points so far in there though (including those items like potions and scrolls being fairly useless). I'd love to see more comments on this - even counter-arguments to what Dak and I have said so far.

[Algorgon]

I would like that idea. It would give a little more variety on what drops from the critters, so long as the worthless zingers were fairly rare. I could understand once in a while, but it would get annoying. I'm not saying dropping uber tough stuff every time either, just stuff to make it interesting. Maybe sometimes some quirky equipment.

[Tylon]

Diversifying item drops is good because it has the potential to make zones replayable. Didn't get the item you were after? Time for another visit. For this reason alone I've always favored this approach from both the playing and development end.

One way this could be implemented at KoTL without disrupting too many things is random modifiers on already existing equipment. Maybe like a 5% chance of something good/bad, 1% chance of something really good/bad, and so on. Perhaps this would even have the potential for normal drops to be competitive with quest gear, if a little on the rare end.